View Poll Results: State of the Union: Will you watch?

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23. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'd rather bathe in molasses and sit in an ant bed

    17 73.91%
  • Probably so

    2 8.70%
  • Surely so

    2 8.70%
  • Not sure yet

    0 0%
  • Depends what else is on TV

    2 8.70%
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Thread: State of the Union: Will you watch?

  1. #16
    Cynic,Esotericist & Satyr Macadoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfatfurrytexan View Post
    This is where i agree with the President, in that we should not allow our candidates to be corporate "ho's".

    I do not believe that money equals free speech. This is not what our founding fathers intended. "The People" are not wealthy, and if money equals free speech, then "The People" no longer have a voice.

    It will destroy the middle class, and keep down the poor.
    They don't say money = free speech, they say that money = political speech and that as well is protected under the First Amendment and that the protection of political speech is fundamental to a Democracy. McCain-Feingold tried to put arbitrary limits on it. There is a reason it was know as the 'Incumbent Protection Act.'
    "Numbers, like facts, are good servants but bad masters."

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  2. #17
    One proud Momma!! raelaka76's Avatar
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    My toddler was at my mom's house....she sent me pictures of him watching and he never looked away. And when the audience clapped he clapped....

    so, I cant decide if I am raising a democrat or if he thought he was watching cartoons.
    My two greatest accomplishments..my baby and my degree!

  3. #18
    Freedom Fundamentalist bigfatfurrytexan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macadoo View Post
    They don't say money = free speech, they say that money = political speech and that as well is protected under the First Amendment and that the protection of political speech is fundamental to a Democracy. McCain-Feingold tried to put arbitrary limits on it. There is a reason it was know as the 'Incumbent Protection Act.'
    Ipso facto?

    it scares me to think what our nation will become once it is unfettered to allow money to equal political speech.

    I hear enough stuff to scare me. But to know that corporate America could literally buy our candidates lock, stock, and barrell is scary like you can't believe.

    Corruption is bad enough. This just seems to institutionalize it. It blocks off the "Joe Public" due to lack of funds to have a voice.

  4. #19
    Cynic,Esotericist & Satyr Macadoo's Avatar
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    Campaign finance: a 'reform' wisely struck down

    By George F. Will
    Thursday, January 28, 2010


    Last week's Supreme Court decision that substantially deregulates political speech has provoked an edifying torrent of hyperbole. Critics' dismay reveals their conviction: Speech about the elections that determine the government's composition is not a constitutional right but a mere privilege that exists at the sufferance of government.

    How regulated did political speech become during the decades when the court was derelict in its duty to actively defend the Constitution? The Federal Election Commission, which administers the law that rations the quantity and regulates the content and timing of political speech, identifies 33 types of political speech and 71 kinds of "speakers." The underlying statute and FEC regulations cover more than 800 pages, and FEC explanations of its decisions have filled more than 1,200 pages. The First Amendment requires 10 words for a sufficient stipulation: "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech."

    Extending the logic of a 1976 decision, the court has now held that the dissemination of political speech requires money, so restricting money restricts speech. Bringing law into conformity with this 1976 precedent, the court has struck down only federal and state laws that forbid independent expenditures (those not made directly to, or coordinated with, candidates' campaigns) by corporations and labor unions. Under the censorship regime the court has overturned, corporations were even forbidden to send political communications to all of their employees.

    The New York Times calls the court's decision, which enables political advocacy by (other) corporations, a "blow to democracy." The Times, a corporate entity, can engage in political advocacy because Congress has granted "media corporations" an exemption from limits.

    The Washington Post, also exempt, says the court's decision, which overturned a previous ruling upholding restrictions on spending for political speech, shows insufficient "respect for precedent." Does The Post think the court incorrectly overturned precedents that upheld racial segregation and warrantless wiretaps? Are the only sacrosanct precedents those that abridge (others') right to speak?

    Alarmists say the court's ruling will mean torrential spending by large for-profit corporations. Anna Burger, secretary-treasurer of the Service Employees International Union -- it has spent $20 million on politics in the past five election cycles -- says a corporation will "funnel their shareholders' money straight to a campaign's coffers." Wrong. Corporate contributions to candidates' campaigns remain proscribed.

    Cleta Mitchell, Washington's preeminent campaign finance attorney, rightly says that few for-profit corporations will jeopardize their commercial interests by engaging in partisan politics: Republicans, Democrats and independents buy Microsoft's and Pepsi's products. If for-profit corporations do plunge into politics, disclosure of their spending will enable voters to draw appropriate conclusions. Of course, political speech regulations radiate distrust of voters' abilities to assess unfettered political advocacy.

    Mitchell says the court's decision primarily liberates nonprofit advocacy groups, such as the Sierra Club, which the FEC fined $28,000 in 2006. The club's sin was to distribute pamphlets in Florida contrasting the environmental views of the presidential and senatorial candidates, to the intended advantage of Democrats. FEC censors deemed this an illegal corporate contribution.

    Barack "Pitchfork" Obama, in his post-Massachusetts populist mode, called the court's ruling a victory for, among others, "big oil" and "Wall Street banks." But OpenSecrets.org reports that in 2008 lawyers gave more money than either of them, and gave 78 percent of the donations to Democrats, who also received 64 percent of contributions from the financial sector.

    Even if it were Congress's business to decide that there is "too much" money in politics, that decision would be odd: In the 2007-08 election cycle, spending in all campaigns, for city council members up to the presidency, was $8.6 billion, about what Americans spend annually on potato chips.

    Critics say raising such sums requires too much of candidates' time. Well, then, let candidates receive unlimited -- but fully disclosed -- contributions, and trust voters to make appropriate inferences about the candidates.

    Undaunted, advocates of government control of political speech want Congress to enact public financing of congressional campaigns, and to ban individuals from participating in politics through contributions. Fortunately, this idea -- "food stamps for politicians" -- is wildly unpopular. Public financing of presidential campaigns has collapsed. Obama disdained it in 2008; the public always has. Voluntary, cost-free participation, using the checkoff on the income tax form, peaked at a paltry 28.7 percent in 1980 and by 2008 had sagged to 8.3 percent.

    This is redundant proof that the premise of campaign finance "reform" is false. The premise is that easily befuddled Americans need to be swaddled in regulations of political speech.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012703909.html
    "Numbers, like facts, are good servants but bad masters."

    ~ Hyman G. Rickover ~

  5. #20
    The Boss Jinxie's Avatar
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    I watched part of it. He threw out burns a couple of times, The gallery openly laughed at him, Showing none of them know how to act as adults. Then he talked about enough is enough with fighting each other.

    Ya. Maybe if we had respectful adults in Washington, We could fix this country. But watching that speech was like reading the political garbage on this website.
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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    I am so sorry I don't live up to your standard of perfection. There might be a misspelled word or a typo above.

  6. #21
    Freedom Fundamentalist bigfatfurrytexan's Avatar
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    All of that aside, when our founding fathers laid out the constitution, did they intend for money to be protected under the first amendment?

    I don't think so. It could be shown to me that i am wrong, but if i am wrong then i am deeply disappointed to find such as i have this idealistic view of what America should be ("The New Atlantis").

    This seems to be a decision mired in special interest and lobby. It seems to push the middle class further down, and prop corporate power further up.

    Moreso, given what we have seen from the recent Geithner debacle, it seems to further entrench (and almost give permission for) such corruption.

  7. #22
    MOF Paint Huffer Vendetta's Avatar
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    Obama said a few things I agreed with that he will not be able to implement without pissing off his party.

    cutting tax-cuts to corporations that send jobs overseas for instance.

    With all the crap coming out of china, we still close down U.S. factories.

    But, until HE DOES IT, it's all smoke up my backside.
    You just can't fix stupid
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    Lied to get out of a traffic ticket, oh the shame!!!

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