Modern day tribes

[WTXJ]

BFFT Quote:This sums it up perfectly. A lack of guidance.

And your reference to the Bible is spot on.

We have entered a day where everything, including morality, is no longer a black and white issue. It is all about grey. We have lost our moral bearing by convincing ourselves through fallacious logic, that right and wrong is more perceptive and less factual.



Yes Grey has taken over in many families and much of the govt.

Tribes, if I murdered someone and one of my family members saw it, I would expect them to turn me in. Right and wrong. If I was going 32mph in a 30mph zone, that's where the gray comes into play.

[WTXJ]

Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

That is kind of true lady.

[westtexasmom]

Life is hard, no use making it more difficult when the kids become teens.
Set the boundaries when the kids are young, whatever the boundaries are for any family, then you get to reap what you sow or something like that when the kids are older. Yes it is hard but worth it. IMHO

Maybe a new take off term: Free Range Tribes?

Interesting........that is something to think about..........

[rpatterson]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. In our family, family comes before outsiders and some family are only tolerated because they married into the family. There are rules within the family, and I believe that they are based on Christian values, morals, laws, and common sense. If someone within the family is involved in illegal actions it is NOT the place of the family to keep that person from the consequences of their actions, even by deceit or omission.
My personal belief is that God has a plan for all of us and His Will will be done. If I continue to step in and keep the person from their consequences, they will not learn the lesson God has for them, and if it is something bad I am only prolonging the suffering because it will happen to them again and again. An example is the person who is of legal age to drink and repeatedly drinks in public or drives, while drunk. If those who love them go and bail them out each time, help them pay their fines, and blame the LEO's for picking on them due to age, race, or whatever, then the person who is doing the wrong may never see a reason to change their actions.

[westtexasmom]

Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

What about kids who do not benefit from this kind of parenting? Say they have parents in jail, or not around for some reason, they are being raised by Grandparents or worse on the streets by themselves.

I have seen some of the kids who have fallen thru the cracks of the welfare system. It is very sad. I have always tried to help out when I can. I always try to make the kids know they are not worthless and that life is full of CHOICES........it is those CHOICES that in the end will make you the person you are meant to be. And that not all bad choices lead to a life of crime forever, you can turn your life around if you want too. It just takes making the right CHOICES!

I have seen kids who want to do good, but just don't know how.......

[bigfatfurrytexan]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. In our family, family comes before outsiders and some family are only tolerated because they married into the family.

*snicker*

There are rules within the family, and I believe that they are based on Christian values, morals, laws, and common sense. If someone within the family is involved in illegal actions it is NOT the place of the family to keep that person from the consequences of their actions, even by deceit or omission.
My personal belief is that God has a plan for all of us and His Will will be done. If I continue to step in and keep the person from their consequences, they will not learn the lesson God has for them, and if it is something bad I am only prolonging the suffering because it will happen to them again and again. An example is the person who is of legal age to drink and repeatedly drinks in public or drives, while drunk. If those who love them go and bail them out each time, help them pay their fines, and blame the LEO's for picking on them due to age, race, or whatever, then the person who is doing the wrong may never see a reason to change their actions.

Yup. This is what i grew up with.

My kids think i am a fink because i don't 'have their back' at school. Hey, whatever you get at school, you get at home. Don't whine to me. Even if you are in the right, you have to learn to suffer the consequences like a man. That is what integrity is. That is the man my grandfather was, and the man i hope to be.

Good post.

My wife? She is more hardcore than i am. In her belief, once you go to jail you no longer have family, until you earn them back by being "right". No visitations, no sympathy, no support.

[raelaka76]

My brother is doing much better now....the last time he went to prison...we didnt go see him...at all. We wrote letters occasionally, but not often. Mom and I did send him money though...not a lot...just enough so he could have some things.


I think this helped alot. He is doing great now. A huge help to me and D.

[westtexasmom]

I have always had a hard time letting anyone in where my kids are concerned. I am very protective, but some of that comes from the abusive marriage I had to survive and get out of. I swore then no one would ever make me weak or vunerable again, maybe I have been somewhat misguided by my own personal experiences........my intentions were good.

I never abandon anyone, ever, there is nothing so bad that I can't get past. I always forgive, it is not mine to judge others. But I never forget.........

[bigfatfurrytexan]

Nothing will ever get between my boys and me. even my wife.

[rpatterson]

I have always had a hard time letting anyone in where my kids are concerned. I am very protective, but some of that comes from the abusive marriage I had to survive and get out of. I swore then no one would ever make me weak or vunerable again, maybe I have been somewhat misguided by my own personal experiences........my intentions were good.

I never abandon anyone, ever, there is nothing so bad that I can't get past. I always forgive, it is not mine to judge others. But I never forget.........

I understand what you are saying, however I can think of some instances where I would walk away. Whether it lasted forever would be up to them though. Who I am now is the product of my life experiences and it is possible to hang on to a relationship that is not healthy or good for either person. It is also possible that after a while it would become toxic.
A brother who lives his life in total misery, making others miserable along with him. Everything is done "against" him and never a product of his own making. There was an intervention, followed by stays in treatment centers more than once. People would forgive him, but he could not forgive himself. Eventually he was alone, with only Mom going by to check on him, to make sure he has eaten. He wants to be better, but can't because he is addicted to alcohol and can't break free. One day Mom calls and says "we need you now, he is unresponsive and we can't lift him". I go and get him up and into moms car as we head to the hospital. They had to burn his clothes because they were so soiled, but I had not noticed, all I saw was my brother who needed my help. He lived for two weeks and I would go and talk to him about God and forgiveness even when I thought he could not hear me.
See I did not leave him, he walked away and I just could not follow him into that madness. When the time came that he needed me though, I was there. This was a brother, but I do not think that it would be different if it was my child. Sometimes you have to let them go.

[raelaka76]

Thanks for that RP...that is what I did to my brother. I felt guilty the whole time...but I knew he was chosing to be the way he was. I could not be associated with his lifestyle. Luckily for me...he seems to be way better now....and I welcomed him back to my life with open arms. However, I would, once again, drop him if he allows himself to drink again. That is a demon I do not allow around my child. He is an alcoholic....so even one drink is a demon.

It hurt my mom that I did this to my brother...and I hate that. I broke her heart as much as he did...but I had to. I will not contribute to his disease by accepting it. And..it has helped him.

So, maybe I am not as loyal as some...I dont know...but I know enabling does not help.

Also, I have personnally reported his actions to the police and had him arrested once....I was 13. He was hitting my Mom....I wanted him to rot in jail. I would do it again. I would report him for abusing anyone. He is my brother and I love him more than I love most people...but he CANNOT harm others.

Right now he is a very loving person...and I pray it stays the same. I need the good brother.

[bigfatfurrytexan]

I understand what you are saying, however I can think of some instances where I would walk away. Whether it lasted forever would be up to them though. Who I am now is the product of my life experiences and it is possible to hang on to a relationship that is not healthy or good for either person. It is also possible that after a while it would become toxic.
A brother who lives his life in total misery, making others miserable along with him. Everything is done "against" him and never a product of his own making. There was an intervention, followed by stays in treatment centers more than once. People would forgive him, but he could not forgive himself. Eventually he was alone, with only Mom going by to check on him, to make sure he has eaten. He wants to be better, but can't because he is addicted to alcohol and can't break free. One day Mom calls and says "we need you now, he is unresponsive and we can't lift him". I go and get him up and into moms car as we head to the hospital. They had to burn his clothes because they were so soiled, but I had not noticed, all I saw was my brother who needed my help. He lived for two weeks and I would go and talk to him about God and forgiveness even when I thought he could not hear me.
See I did not leave him, he walked away and I just could not follow him into that madness. When the time came that he needed me though, I was there. This was a brother, but I do not think that it would be different if it was my child. Sometimes you have to let them go.

Well stated.

And every last bit of it true. Me, being the child that i was, just thought he was a jerk. I didn't see the good man that lived in the shadow of the beer can.

[PUGMOM]

You were all talking about why everything has changed; the way young people perceive authority changed in the '60's. There was no respect for your boss, parents, or anyone in authority. Our culture changed and it took this long, I guess, for it to change the kids, who became the "Me Generation." I know a lot of sociologists make fun of the '50's because everything bad thing was hidden. In the '60's and beyond, everything was so much in the open. I MISS the '50's. I was punished for being disrespectful to any adult. Even the old TV shows, like Father Knows Best, showed kids being respectful to adults. It really bothers me now, when I hear ads in which the mothers and the kids "put down" fathers.

[westtexasmom]

You were all talking about why everything has changed; the way young people perceive authority changed in the '60's. There was no respect for your boss, parents, or anyone in authority. Our culture changed and it took this long, I guess, for it to change the kids, who became the "Me Generation." I know a lot of sociologists make fun of the '50's because everything bad thing was hidden. In the '60's and beyond, everything was so much in the open. I MISS the '50's. I was punished for being disrespectful to any adult. Even the old TV shows, like Father Knows Best, showed kids being respectful to adults. It really bothers me now, when I hear ads in which the mothers and the kids "put down" fathers.

You hit the nail on the head........this is exactly what I have been searching for........I see exactly what you are saying. We are a product of "progress"......that is sad

[Dragonlady]

I think we're all guilty of trying to give our children more than what we had growing up. Plus the dual paychecks and then the latch key kids. I do believe in raising your children the difference from right and wrong when they're young and they will turn out to be great young adults.